Curse

Numa Pompilius · Sep 03, 2005, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatalieD

Some of us like missing out on game content. Guild Wars PVE is - to me - about as fun as eating sawdust. Anything that lets me spend less time on that and more on the PVP is a good thing, in my eyes.

And you knew that on your first run through the game?
Riiiight.

Because LIKE I SAID, people should be perfectly free to run/taxi their second to N'th character as much as they want.

I haven't seen anyone here who've had a problem with that.

Despite this, most of the replies are along the lines of "this is my 14th character and I don't want to do the same stuff all over again".

Silmor · Sep 03, 2005, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExplosiveBadger

I'm glad sombody commented on this. This is my second time going through the game and well I did get Droknars Forge armor(...)

If I was going through the game in a regular fashion, I wouldn't even want to group with a twinked character like yourself. Getting Droknar armour is a conscious decision on your part to eliminate a significant portion of the challenge, so it becomes even more of an exercise in repeating old tricks. Increasing the challenge by consciously gimping myself (by taking oddball builds and/or taking a minimal amount of players along) for quests and missions is the one thing that is keeping things interesting for me to play missions yet again, making it even easier than they already are seems seriously counter-productive.

What's the rush? I think the question should be - where were you when everyone was playing their second and third characters through the missions? Do you expect everyone else to wait up for you while you take your time spending four months playing casually before starting a new character? Let's talk again when you're on your fifth or eight character, see if you still want to experience the full content PvE has to offer after all that.

Amand · Sep 03, 2005, 05:37 PM // 17:37

I like them wannabe-Mesmers who power-leveled/ran to ascension and find themselves being useless not only their whole team but also to themselves because they copied a build they gazed at in wonder (in PVP, in a video, wherever). Funny too those Blitz-Solomonks who after the "nerf" delete their chars because of their inability to master the arts of healing/protection.

ExplosiveBadger · Sep 03, 2005, 05:42 PM // 17:42

I'm in it for unlocking skills, not to expierence the full PVE content. The missions are just for unlocking cities for skills. Get off your high horse already.

Ekpyrotic · Sep 03, 2005, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Hi my primary character is a Mesmer/Monk of level 14 - not much I know, but I don't want to speed to the end, get elite skills - then sit back and laugh at people who are doing all the missions - because later you'll realize you have wasted your gaming experience, but moreover you'll learn Guild Wars is a learing process, learning how to best play a character - picking which skills to play with - and if you think it's fun to get to the end in a day or so then I think you've brought the wrong game.

It's not about grinding but about skill.

Silmor · Sep 03, 2005, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Ekpyrotic, PvE teaches you painfully little about how to use mesmer skills or which ones work well. I can run at Azure Shadows with my mesmer character and hit Cry of Frustration straight away, and interrupt their Signet of Judgment. Simple facts about Azure Shadows: they have Holy Wrath, Retribution and Signet of Judgement as their skills, and will take turns casting Signet of Judgment at whomever was closest by, with roughly two second delay inbetween their individual casts. I can plan around their skills and behaviour with ease, and don't even have to pay much attention fighting them - their patterns never change.

In PvP, you don't know for sure which skills your opponents will use. You don't know for sure when exactly they'll use them, you don't know for sure who they'll use them on. You don't know how they'll react to you trying to stop them. As a mesmer you have to be paying immense attention to what is going on around you, and be ready to adjust to changed circumstances in an instant. The nature of this sort of play is a completely different world from the controlled and predictable environment of PvE, and I'm convinced playing mesmer in PvE ultimately makes you a worse mesmer for PvP than if you don't play it at all.

Yet someone who wants to play a mesmer in PvP will still need to go through PvE to collect all the skills, even though there's very little room for him to make the most out of his specialized tools with creatures dropping very fast from simple tanking/nuking/healing already. Even if PvE did give you understanding into your class, that would still be grind, just grind with an advantage of learning something, much like a lengthy tutorial you can't skip.

Now imagine you already know very well how to play a mesmer, know exactly what every skill does and still have to go through this 'tutorial' regardless of the fact that it teaches you nothing.

Phades · Sep 04, 2005, 06:19 PM // 18:19

You cant teach timing to someone, that is more intuitive than learned behavior similar to lead in fps games. I would say timing is probably the most important thing for a mesmer and nothing in the pve really helps with that, since all of the pve can be steamrolled via brute force opposed to using a punch and counter setup.

NatalieD · Sep 04, 2005, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

And you knew that on your first run through the game?
Riiiight.

Um... yes. Why is that hard to believe?

Sainte · Sep 04, 2005, 11:45 PM // 23:45

I have a problem with people running thier first chars through everything. I have 2 Chars with whom I finished the game, long befire "taxi" services were available, and I only plan to get my 3rd hero through the game fast because I dont want to farm 100+ skill points on my monk for some skills.

People who run their first char learn absolutely NOTHING about how to play, and then go to Random Arena/HoH and say they are "Pro tankers" because they can take some damage in PvE. They join your team, get thier ***es owned, start crying about monks not healing or if they are a monk, that the team is stupid for not charging, and leave.

Oh, I have seen this happen. Good players know what builds will not work from just the skillset.. Rushed people wont. I saw some SWORD MONKS in Random a few days back. My WAND was doing more DPS than they could, and they needed to be constantly healed because they brought only healing breeze with them. As well as the common WaMo noob tutorial build, which teaches people nothing, since most people think, "Oh, I got a monk on my team, now I can charge into those rows of traps and take down that other WaMo and my team will heal me and make me a god."

I was going to help a friend through Elona Reach a few days back, and guess what happened? We got owned before we even reached the first crystal. Reason? The other monk, who sail he was healing, tended to simply stay there and do nothing, pretending we were going to do everything. The warrior, who still had ASCALON armor, decided to tank 4 Arcanists and 2 Elems by himself, thus dying in a few hits. After calling the target, ressing people, and trying to organize something, I gave up since no one could even dent a single Arcanist, because they were all hitting something else.

To put this into perspective, the first time I did this on my monk as a lvl 17, 2 1/2 months ago, I finished the mission in under 10 minutes, on the first try, without anyone dying.

I love the fact that the Doppleganger is still there, he greatly reduces the amount of morons going through to the later stages of the game. This also means that stupid UW-Farmers who rip off builds cant get into UW without passing the missions.

Sorry for the long rant.

NatalieD · Sep 05, 2005, 02:09 AM // 02:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sainte

People who run their first char learn absolutely NOTHING about how to play, and then go to Random Arena/HoH and say they are "Pro tankers" because they can take some damage in PvE. They join your team, get thier ***es owned, start crying about monks not healing or if they are a monk, that the team is stupid for not charging, and leave.

Morons are the ones who do that. I've seen nothing to make me believe that there are any fewer morons doing PVE, or that morons who do PVE first learn anything from it.

Quote:

Oh, I have seen this happen. Good players know what builds will not work from just the skillset.. Rushed people wont. I saw some SWORD MONKS in Random a few days back. My WAND was doing more DPS than they could, and they needed to be constantly healed because they brought only healing breeze with them. As well as the common WaMo noob tutorial build, which teaches people nothing, since most people think, "Oh, I got a monk on my team, now I can charge into those rows of traps and take down that other WaMo and my team will heal me and make me a god."

And how do you know that these people never played the PVE game?

Quote:

I was going to help a friend through Elona Reach a few days back, and guess what happened? We got owned before we even reached the first crystal. Reason? The other monk, who sail he was healing, tended to simply stay there and do nothing, pretending we were going to do everything. The warrior, who still had ASCALON armor, decided to tank 4 Arcanists and 2 Elems by himself, thus dying in a few hits. After calling the target, ressing people, and trying to organize something, I gave up since no one could even dent a single Arcanist, because they were all hitting something else.

Again, do you have some way of knowing that they were rushed to the desert, or might they just be fools who bumbled their way through all the missions till there?

scytherage · Sep 05, 2005, 02:14 AM // 02:14

Maybe Arena Net should have some kind of special 'reward' for people who go through the game and follow the proper progression...a skill, additional attribute points, an extra quest/mission/story related area....? That way, people can still 'run' if they want to, but if they do, they will miss out on something that will help them through PvP or will enhance their experience of the game.

That said, runners hurt the arenas for new players. Something must be done about that soon, and quickly.

chaos dragoon · Sep 05, 2005, 05:41 AM // 05:41

the thing that should be done is not allow them into the arena if they have any skills/armor that are past yaks bend.and for yaks arena nothing past druids outlook.

Saerden · Sep 05, 2005, 06:28 AM // 06:28

Good to see that pve players are finally complaining that noone cares to play this pathetic pve anymore. Believe me, noone would play with you even if running would be impossible. By now, every person worth teaming with has figured out that henchmen >> PUG. Even if this would not be the case, people would still only play through once, and then farm the exp for all the skills. Since a 2nd or 3rd character is only worth it when you rush.

There are lots of very bad parts in books, movies and games that i would skip. This is less of a problem in books and movies, because they are very short to begin with, but the occasional "aw, lets have emotions" scene here or there still is annoying. Games? Even the best games have parts that are so boring that you rather dont want to do them. Too sad that GW contains around 90% of boring content. Sad thing: most of GWs content is inefficient (farming > playing the game) and boring on top of it. You should be suprised you still see people in the game at all...

coolsti · Sep 05, 2005, 10:06 AM // 10:06

To the original poster of this thread: Whatever you do, don't dispair! There are a lot of people out there that don't really care to enjoy the PVE part of this game, and instead spend their time running, getting run, selling things, etc. Ignore them as if they don't exist. All they do for me is eat up a chunk of the server's CPU time (and spam the local chat channel, for example the sellers in Lions).

I play a lot with henchies because I think its the best way to learn about a new mission (you don't have to rush through it!) and because in many cases it is a lot easier than having to deal with the kinds of players one finds in PUGs. But I enjoy playing with human players, and it is great when the group is great. And this does happen often enough for me now. There are still a lot of good players who are mostly interested in enjoying the PVE part of GW. Nothing you can really do about the ones who don't.

Two things I do: I usually never join a group, instead I form my own one by advertising for teamplayers only, fun players only, no leavers, no bullies, etc. etc. This gives a better chance of attracting the good players. I avoid high level players who offer "to help" with the quest or mission (yesterday someone answered my call with "I'll help with the quest" and I replied that I was not looking for help, but looking for people who had to do the quest). The other thing I do is I often take along a couple of henchies instead of filling up the entire party with humans. Less chance then for misunderstandings and different playing styles.

In fact, lately I have been playing the PVE game basically two ways: with human players for entertainment and with henchies in order to advance in the game. Like, I almost completed Thunderkeep mission yesterday with henchies alone (was my first time and I made one blunder near the end). Then I decided to do it with a human group for a laugh, to see how they would do it. The human group also failed, but did far worse than I did on my own.

St0rM · Sep 05, 2005, 12:59 PM // 12:59

I think actually no-one should be complaining,wat have runners or ppl that get ran have ever done?.Nothing except you's all say that you's dont have any partys to join wat a bunch of lies there are so many ppl that can get party pretty easily.i completed the game with my first char and then got drok's armor and then with my second char i got ran to droks to get armor and get ascended with-out leveling through missions and quests.I was actually going to do the whole game again without running but a guildy offered so i accepted,does it matter if you get ran or not it has nothing to do with any body else but yourself.

If you wanna get ran and ruin your game then fine,if you wanna do the whole game every single time you start a new char then fine.But complaining about it like a bunch of babies isn't going to sort anything.

Thats my 2 cents $

Maxiemonster · Sep 05, 2005, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Myself like playing the game too, but I can understand people that are being rushed. After playing the game once, it's nice playing it again. But I've completed it 3 times now, and I won't do it again, because it does get boring

Numa Pompilius · Sep 05, 2005, 02:15 PM // 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatalieD

Um... yes. Why is that hard to believe?

Well, if you've never actually played the PvE the way it's supposed to - how would you know if it sucks?

Gwenhywar · Sep 05, 2005, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iere

I don't understand why people want to be ran; I don't mind replaying missions, if only because it's a different role.

Why can't you just play the game the way YOU want to play it, and let the others play it the way THEY like to play it? I'm betting you don't like when others tell you how to play too ...

I'm opposed to new players being run to places because I feel that they never learn to properly play their class, which later creates problems for other people who're stuck to do missions in Fire islands with them (you often see newbies in Augury asking for directions before asking to be run to places, which indicates they've never been to those places with another char). If I'm gathering a group for Thirsty, and ask the eles to bring ward against melee, and BOTH ask me: "where can I get such skill?", I feel odd!

But I see no point in doing ALL the same missions in exactly the same order with my THIRD character. So I skipped the desert missions and instead made a VERY fun journey from Druid's through many previously undiscovered areas down up to Fisherman's ... then proceeded to Sanctum and ascension missions. I will ofc return to jungle later to do the skills quests, but that's it.

I run to most places myself (easy with W/R), except paying a professional Droknar runner). Personally, I think Beacons - Droknar's is the only one worth paying for, since others are so much easier. But if someone believes it's worth paying to be run around the desert - let them play the game they want to play it!! Maybe they don't think eating through gazillion of scarabs and scorpions for the 10th time is a great way to spend your evening ...

Saba The Hobo · Sep 05, 2005, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sanji

I'd have to say that the ability to unlock outposts to your account instead of your individual characters would be awesome

Whee, level 3's in Ember Light.

I'll pass...

Teufel Eldritch · Sep 05, 2005, 04:40 PM // 16:40

If they would just make it easier for PvPers to get the things they need(be it UAS or whatever) thru playing PvP this rushing crap would happen far less frequently.

Sooooooooooo Devs... plz make it so PvPers dont even have to touch the PvE game. Make it so they can unlock all thier skills & whatnot much much much faster while they PvP.

Am I a PvPer? No. I'm just tired of PvP ruining PvE.